Third Roundtable Topic: Should Rare's games be available on Xbox Live Arcade?

- Hunter2049 -

This week's discussion is about an interesting interview that was posted this morning where Aaron Greenburg, Head of Xbox Live Marketplace, states that as far as he's aware, there are no plans for Goldeneye: 007 to appear on Live Arcade.

The question this week is, should any of Rare's older games (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini, etc.) be available on Xbox Live Arcade? Why or why not?

- Xaos -

Definately. A handful of the ancient Rare titles should without-a-doubt be on there...Jetpac with 2-4p multiplayer would be absolutely brilliant! Then moving on to the start of Rare's acclaimed life; Battletoads and Killer Instinct (1/2). Both are obviously MP legends, and could only get better with Xbox Live.

Now to the more controversial side of things; Rare's classic 4-way multiplayer N64 titles. Now, who wouldn't love a bit of the original Facility? While it would be ace to play Banjo-Kazooie on Live Arcade, I personally think they should stick with the multiplayer side of things. The single player games that are currently available are very simplistic; blow up as many ships as you can before dieing, score as many points as you can before the time runs out, etc. With Rares games, or most standard console games made in the past 10 years, are a little more advanced then that. And by little I mean alot. I don't think an in-depth singleplayer game such as BK would suit Live Arcade, mainly because the games are meant to be simple. But on the other hand, mutliplayer always has the one objective, much like the current Arcade titles.

As for pricing, the oldies should be kept at 400-800 (Jetpac and Battletoads / Killer Instinct respectively). I would imagine Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting and Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 will be 800 MS Points (Marketplace currency for those not in the know), so it makes sense for another fighter to join them. For the 64 titles, since they're somewhat more sophisticated, I'd say they'd have to be around 1500. While that is a good $15 US (estimate), what price would you pay to play a refurbished Goldeneye?

Also, downloadable content is always a bonus feature with Xbox Live. User created maps for Goldeneye would be superb.

- flame ofdark -

No Goldeneye007 for the xbox live arcade is a big mistake.

It would definitely get a download by nearly every 360 owner, especially if it was made more than 4 player multiplayer.

Heck I just saw this game for the N64 at my EBGames today, I wanted to buy it too.

- Sire Mako -

Id hope not, the N64 gave me so many good memories, memories only that should be expressed by and for the N64.

- Hunter2049 -

I agree that putting Goldeneye on Xbox Live Arcade would make it one of the most played games on the 360, and it certainly could be a way for Microsoft to recoup some of the money they spent on Rare, but I'm not sure if changing it for Xbox Live would be possible or wise. Most people would expect it to be the original game, which of course made four-player gaming what it is today, and it could really help the Xbox 360's momentum continue to build. Xbox Live support should be a bonus, not the focus/selling point of the game. If there's one thing that I hope Microsoft learned from Conker, it's that people don't want to buy the same game plus Live multiplayer support....but then again, does that mean that they'd want to buy the same game again minus it in the other titles Rare could bring over?

- Sheep Licker -

I would love to see GoldenEye 007 on Xbox Live Arcade. It defined console first person shooters. I don't see why it shouldn't be put online, everyone would surely download it. But with EA having the exclusive rights to the Bond series, I could see them jumping in and ruining it for everyone.

And if it were to be ported over to the Live Arcade the controls would need to be tweaked and changed to suit the Xbox controller. Especially the aiming, as the auto-aim in GoldenEye is totally different to today's standards, as the reticule actually moves to certain points of the body, i.e. the head, body and legs, whereas with today's games like Halo, Timesplitters and PDZ it helps you aim wherever you want on the body without locating a specific point.

- Mr. Cribby -

Sure why not, I’d like to see any old games on there from Rare. That would be cool to play them on Xbox Live too. Maybe add some co-op or something new to a game to surprise some fans. If they put Golden Eye or Perfect Dark they will most likely get a lot of downloads. Jet-Pack would work well on there too. Xbox Live Arcade needs some old adventure type games. Jet Force Gemini would be a great candidate to add on there. All that’s on there now is mostly shooters, puzzle games, and card games. So it would be nice to see some new types of games on there for download. 400-800 points would be a reasonable price too I think. They should definitely add Killer Instinct, that’s one fun fighting game. I hope to see some old classic Rare games on there. I just hope if any ever come out on there, the controls are good!

While it's somewhat unclear as to the legality of it or not, many fans of Rare's Goldeneye 007 think that it will arive on Xbox Live Arcade.

- Don -

Seeing older Rare classics such from the NES days would most likely be for nostalagia purposes but older gamers are a dying breed.

If there was Rare games on the Live Arcade they would be from the SNES days and up to have a broader market niche.

- flame ofdark -

You know I take back my comment on wanting it to be playable with more than 4 players and over live. The purpose is to get people together in the real world and to have a good time. The only thing is changing up the controls to fit the 360 controller. I would hate it if EA had the choice of this taking place as they own the Bond franchise now, though this doesn't concern them. Rareware is with microsoft so they should definitely milk everything they've got, especially if it's returning an amazing game that was loved by all.

- xxpcmxx -

I didn't see this in anywhere in the table so I just wanted to throw in:

Goldeneye almost doesn't count because EA owns the rights to the licence meaning that they have to sign off on it first. Not to mention nobody even knows who owns the code to it. A lot of speculation is that Nintendo owns it and it may reappear on the Revolution... but who knows.

As for the other games I have a feeling Microsoft may try a Nintendo take on these classics... either remaking them on the 360 or re-releasing them on the DS and making a few quick bucks on them.

And this is all for one MAJOR reason:

Anyone remember why Microsoft is paying license fees to NVidia for the 360? Because they had to take apart the Xbox hardware to emulate the original titles.. Microsoft would have to do the same thing with the Nintendo 64 to get the original Rare titles working or they would have to completely rebuild them from scratch... neither task I am sure is very appealing to their pockets

- Hunter2049 -

Along those same lines, though, is Microsoft paying the manufacturer of the old arcade boards that ran Street Fighter or are they paying Nintendo to run Guantlet, since it originally came out on the NES? I don't think they would do that.....but then again, to promote their new "virtual console" concept for the casual gamer, who knows....it is Microsoft after all.

- Wozza -

I'd love to see every classic from Rare revivied for the Live Arcade and I don't believe it will be such a huge challenge for Rare and Microsoft to make these games available on Xbox 360 hardware.

If there are hurdles in the way when it comes to releasing games like Goldeneye then they should at least make available the titles that are 100% Rare owned.

I'm sure they are well aware of the wishful demand for these titles on Live Arcade - so why not??

Don is probably right though, if any Rare classics were to be released they would be from an older console generation rather then the N64.

- xxpcmxx -

Well my point was that they either had to create an emulator to run the games or completely recode them. I see what you are saying about Street Fighter and Gauntlet, Hunter...but lets face it it will take a hell of a lot more time to build N64 games for it. It pretty much would have to be done from the ground up.

It is possible, but no where near as cheap as the expense to make both of those games available.

- DisTractional_entity -

Whether the games should be on Live Arcade depends on mostly the eligibility criteria; but how best do you determine which of Rare's games should be on the service?

I think that Jet Force Gemini would be a good candidate for inclusion. The gameplay I would say isn't too heavy a deviation from "arcade", but it has depth, and can last. The characters are likeable, memorable and stand out. They also each have their own skills and locations they can visit, so there'd be plenty to do.

But if you're going to talk about classic Rare games, then the title that I think absolutely should be on Live Arcade from Rare's calalogue is Battletoads. That's the one screaming out "put me on Arcade" the most of all! Now, I really enjoyed BT in Ragnarok's World for GB. That spent so much time in my portable's cartridge slot. The thing is though, that Battletoads is an arcade game.

Yes, it's difficult, but it also is dripping with replay value and character. You repeatedly feel that if you tried that instead of what you did before, you could move on. Importantly, it's never unfair either. If you fail, there's no lengthy loading; just game over, start again, hit the ground running.

It also has some highly noteworthy, series specific minigames/set pieces, including the abseiling and swamp speeding sections, which must simply be experienced. The only thing holding you back is your own skill, which can improve with practice and the game will certainly last you. Battletoads also has a great cast of characters. There's a crackpot prof, the Dark Queen, and more. The 'Toads themselves, less so - But you're never asked to identify with them, they're more just dudes with a job to do, really.

My opinion on Goldeneye itself is this: I wouldn't refuse it if it were offered on Live Arcade, but I'd prefer Perfect Dark. Reason being, that a high majority of comment/review etc. online for PDZ has been to the effect that it doesn't match up to the original. PD also has far more in the way of multiplayer options and weaponry. GE's great, and definitely enjoyable, but now, for me it's no Perfect Dark. I think also that if there were any time to re-release Joanna's first game, it'd be now.

The original Killer Instinct would also be a worthy inclusion I think.

- flame ofdark -

Goldeneye was supposed to be majorly different from PD. I don't really care that Perfect Dark was a whole lot more fun, I enjoyed GE a lot more than it for several reasons.

1. It's got 007 and it's by Rare. 2. The multiplayer was hella fun. 3. The levels for both single and multiplayer were great. 4. It was completely captivating at the time.

What I'm getting at is that Goldeneye should be put on the market first before Perfect Dark to recreate the trend that everyone had going in the days before.

- Distractional_entity -

The whole point of what's being discussed is that memorable games may appear on Live. Hence, they need no introduction.

The JB licence doesn't mean a thing to me beyond being cheesy, bank holiday afternoon filler-fare. I can barely think of a worse thing to watch than have to sit through another one of those.

But, ideally, both GE and PD should appear on Live Arcade, as both were key memorable titles from Rare. I doubt that will happen though...I'm just not convinced that the two would co-exist well. I believe it likely that support would be strongly weighted towards one or the other. But I fail to see the benefit that you imply, Flame; from attempting to recreate the gaming climate of nearly ten years past?

I think it's also important when talking about Goldeneye:007, to remember that as brilliant as it was, it had no real competition at the time. Many PC gamers were utterly taken aback by it, and the success it enjoyed, while console gamers (understandably!) couldn't get enough of the game.

With regard to Banjo...I agree with those that suggest that his adventures don't really fit into the Arcade framework so well. He could do well on DS, but overall, I've reached the conclusion that it's probably best to approach any "Banjo Threeie" from the perspective of being an utterly fresh experience, and not rerelease his earlier jaunts at this time. I just don't know if the portable market would be as receptive to those earlier games, really. I think it unlikely that such a re-release would penetrate the mainstream sufficiently to pay back the time and effort that would need to be spent.

Many fans of Rare's Banjo-Kazooie series would like to see a version of the game appear on Microsoft's Xbox Live Arcade.

- flame ofdark -

I see what you mean DE, though what I was trying to say was that if even they do get released on the xbox live arcade that yes it would be weighed one way or the other. That's why I propose they put Goldeneye007 out first just as it came out first and then while the gamers enjoy that, re-create PD to go in. It will be clear that as soon as PD hits the arcade many gamers will be playing it instead of Goldeneye.

I don't see there being a way of getting both onto the arcade successfuly without that process above. Even if they could get it re-formatted into the Xbox 360. I'm not implying this will heavily benefit Goldeneye just give it that little boost that's worth it to the fans who enjoyed it over Perfect Dark. Looking beyond the situation though, it could be effective if they built in achievements such as beating it on perfect agent and such. Like arcade medals basically, though sadly the problem is the games aren't headed for the arcade.

What should be worked on is the appraise for the titles, the appreciation that will get it into the arcade and straight into nearly everyone's hard drive. Anybody who ever had an N64 or an earlier console will know the true value of this.