Well, I just saw the bill getting approved by the House. Barely though. 220-215. So what are your thoughts? Personally, I think it'll do more good to the middle-classed people (such as I; we don't have health insurance anymore).

Quick link BTW: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8348941.stm

Yay, Lucy won't die if she gets sick.

I lost my health insurance when I turned 19. So this is good news to my ears!

I already have healthcare for life, so it doesn't really effect me much either way.

You're so lucky. Health insurance companies tried to rip us off and all, so there was no other choice but to stop paying them. It didn't help us much. Hopefully, health care will largely improved. As for the dying part LOL I'm much happy already. Oh and I got a new pair of glasses at last today!! (Kinda relevant) I broke them a week ago, and my prescription got SO BAD. I'm almost blind so I have to wear them all the time this time. Bleh. These last 7 days were absolutely horrible.

Damn it- This is a very hot button topic with me, and I'm short on time.

Thing is, most people are very uneducated about how this bill would work and the many things that would be implemented because of it. For example, think less "free healthcare" and more Mandatory BUY it Care.

There is a provision in the bill stating that if you do not buy healthcare (the govt. option isn't free!) you will be forced to pay 2% of your income and/or major fines and/or jail time. JAIL TIME!

Think about it- This is the govt making you buy something because you are alive. If you are alive you have to give the govt money for something that might not suit you, might not need, or want! There is NO comparison to this in existance: Some dummies try to equate it to the govt making you buy driver's insurance. The difference is NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DRIVE A CAR! If you don't drive a car, why should you have to pay for driver's insurance?

My point- I know it's wrong for the government to force it's citizens to buy a product or service for being alive and living in that nation. Why not come clean and call it the "alive tax" then?

Never mind this crappy version of the bill anyway- Mark Zenek's words: this version of the bill that (Donkey) Kongress passed will NOT pass the Senate. The Senators will want to keep their cushy jobs after all... I'm glad no one is bashing us Republicans here- If you're educated about the bill, you will know that the only people stopping this monster are moderate Dem's who have a shred of common sense. Us Republicans WANT to improve the system, but not in that way. I've got a few ideas too, but Pressed for time. Ta!

-Zenek
PS. Buy my toys, or I will charge you a fine! (Either way I get your money. )

Three words. National Health Service.

Hold your horses, folks, it's only through the House of Representatives at the moment. It still has to pass in the Senate (unlikely) so there's still hope yet that it may not be passed.........


Remember in Auguest when the Congress and our fine President suggested a program to spur the economy upward. This wonderful program (cash for clunkers) was given several billion dollars and was designed to last until November. They ran out of money in less than a week.

"Calculated" enough money for four months, didn't last a week.

Now, here's a great example.....when granny falls and breaks her hip four days after the health insurance reform passes, but they've "accidently" run out of money (see above example) who's to pay for/fix up ol' granny?

Just another way to (BLEEP) the white man.

Did you ever imagine that people would be threatened with jail time for not having health insurance in America?

I assume the President knows the difference between requiring auto insurance and health insurance. I don't know why he is using that argument to get his point across. It makes him look foolish.

People can choose not to drive a car if they don't want to pay for auto insurance. Mandatory health insurance amounts to a tax on just existing as a human being. This goes against everything America once stood for.

Does nobody see the downward spiral that has become America? Things are just going to get worse. I could go on a 3 page spiel about what is wrong with this nation, but I'd definitely come across as some Conspiracy 'Nut'. Who's to say these conspiracies are false though?

You'd have to be an idiot to not support this. Really, Healthcare should be available to everyone, not just those who can afford it.

What if you were in some tragic accident and couldn't pay the hospital bill? You'd have to miss out, correct? At least if you pay the "few dollars a year tax", you'd be set for anything bad that happens.

And if nothing bad happens to you, take pride that your few dollars has saved somebody's life.

This will benefit more people than it won't, so get over your outdated American ways and realise that this is the better way to go.


As for it being mandatory, I was under the impression that you could get gaol time for not paying taxes, in any instance.

^We already have a program if you can't afford it. It is already mandatory that if you break your arm here in the good ol' US of A, Uncle Sam himself will pay for the procedure. If the procedure costs lets say $10,000, and you have nothing, and the federal government pays $5,000, the hospital eats the other $5000, part of the reason that health care has gone up so much. Thanks Medicare.....but at least your arm isn't broken and you didn't have to pay.

Oh yeah, by the way, since the new bill requires everyone to have health insurance (read that carefully, not free health insurance, but required to PURCHASE, either through private or public means) it does away with the government's ability or desire to pay for such examples. In addition, if you cannot afford to purchase insurance either through a local provider in the private sector or through the government's so called "public option" plan, as noted previous in this thread, you're going to be fined and then jailed.

Great plan. Remove the bennefits we've got right now, tax those who are doing fine more, and throw people in jail for not being able to afford the health care that they used to get for free.

Way to go Mr. President..........

Good thing I'm invincible and immortal so I don't have to worry about health care.

I honestly didn't know any of this scandal-like information.

Please don't feel bad, hardly anybody's read the entire bill (myself included). If you'd like to give it a shot, it's available to read from the Congress' website, but as a bit of a warning, its 1018 pages long.....

Absolutely crazy.

The information sounds too scandal-like to be really in the bill, so I'll read it myself. It's better to inform myself of something as vital as healthcare.

Paying 2% of your income for health insurance seems a pretty good deal to me. It's worth pointing out that those who are unemployed will not be expected to pay.

The government is making you buy something because you are alive? Actually the government is making you buy something because you earn money and do not have insurance. It's almost as if it's some sort of, wait I can't think of the word, oh tax.

Jesus Christ I don't even know how people can get riled up about this, people who don't have insurance get taxed a little more to pay for their insurance. To be honest I'd have thought people would love this because it means they don't have to foot the bill as much for poorer people. Now that's the American way.



If you can't afford it you don't have to pay, it's the very nature of welfare schemes.

Unfortunately its much more than just a 'welfare scheme' as you put it. In fact, you really will be fined and jailed, whether you can afford it or not.

See here for the Speaker of the House defending that lovely fact.......

Typical political spin avoiding the answer.

People to be sent to jail for not paying tax shocker.

It's quite simple, if you earn enough to pay for insurance but do not have your own private insurance you will be taxed to pay for insurance.

If you earn enough to pay for insurance and do have your own private insurance you will not be taxed to pay for your own insurance.

If you do not earn enough to pay for insurance you will not be taxed full stop.





To be honest it looked like pure bemusement at the question.

I dont like jumping into these kinds of things but I agree with Pope

I have no idea what to "agree" on, I'm just neutral on all this. I mean, of course people go to jail if you don't pay your taxes. That's nothing new. (BTW, did you guys know that we indirectly pay a tax that goes for the Native American re-fund for all the crap we put them through? Just a thought...) But then again, the bill is pretty long itself. Zenek and Hunter make it sound it's like "an evil masterplan," and I have no clue as to how to see it. For me, as long as it helps all American people and stops the on-going corruption of health insurance companies, I am all for it. I know too many people that had a beef with the companies because they already had a minor medical history. The companies will try to find anything so that you don't get insurance; if they don't, they charge you more, but with less benefits. It is ridiculous. And I am sure LOTS of people are fed up with it. I sure know my parents are. And by minor, I mean, really minor. Even your common peanut butter allergy, or my eczema.

To Pope- if you were a politician I'd give you a gold star! You called it what it is: a tax. It's not "free healthcare", it's the government plan and it's a tax for being alive. Congress will never call this bill the "because your arse is alive tax." You're taxed on money you make, property you own, the state you choose to live in, (Florida rules for not having a "State Tax") but this is just wierd... I mean, look how smoothly the postal service, public school system and DMV run under government control and think about a government worker working on your kidney transplant... Yech.

Very quick non-government take-over of 1/6 of the private sector idea that Congress bull-headedly ignore (with silly fictional apes to keep you following along): Why not allow people to buy health insurance over state lines?

Let's say Marty the Gorilla lives in Vermont, the most useless state in the union. (Prove me wrong. Name ONE thing that's ever come from Vermont that's ever done anything for anyone. ONE. ) Health insurance is very highly priced for Marty in his homestate where there is a monopoly. There's only one viable health insurance that sorta suits Marty, but it's through the roof of his tree house expensive. Marty goes without insurance. However- his cousin Sally the Orangutan who lives in Georgia has a larger collection of HI companies that compete for her business. That competition lowers cost for Sally, who has an easier time choosing a policy. Marty wants that chance, but the law states you can't buy HI from a state you don't live in.

WHY NOT? It would make ALL HI companies compete to lower costs to the consumer now that the primates have a HUGE selection of options. Service would improve, as no one would stick with a insurance company when there are plans from 49 more states itching for your bananna coins?

See- it's all easier to explain when there's apes involved. Night R-E...

-Zenek

PS. This made me smile, because it's true & I love dinosaurs. DINOSAURS THAT KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY REPRESENT THE PEOPLE, that is:

Man, I find it so hard to read some of the anti-Healthcare Reform posts on any forum simply because they all seem to be, "Oh no, taxes! If it's a tax, it's evil!" Wow, gaol time for not paying your taxes? That's new. Really, through your massive 100+ worded posts I have not seen one benefit for sticking to your original Healthcare system. Instead, you've only been pinpointing the down points of the reform.

Though the benefits of reform? Try this:
http://www.stablequalitycare.org/reform-be...-cpm-art-list-4

Oh, and your scenario Zenek? You're treating a hospital system like a business (at least, that's the impression I'm getting). Can't you see the problem with that mindset? You shouldn't have to just 'shop around' for the best health, because that just sounds disgusting.

That cartoon made no sense to me..... no intelligent sense to me that is. I'm just gonna pretend that whoever wrote that has a crippling fear that the government wants to eat him. That way it makes sense to me

Big Pharmaceuticals is a business my friends. Everyone has to make their buck somewhere. They've been screwing us for years. Why should I have to pay 150 dollars for a 5 minute doctor visit, for him to just put a 'wick' in my ear? 40 dollars for some ear drops?

Both systems hold their own problems, we'll be no worse off with the new system than the prior. Some things will get better, while other things get worse.

Interesting tidbit, Curry helps prevent cancer better than anything we've got right now. Why is this now just breaking? Why have folks been subjected to radiation and chemo?

To think these people in suits would give us the shirt off their backs on a cold bare winter night, is a bold thought. They are just tending to the flock, nothing more.

Everything is about profit in these times friends. Things needn't be as expensive as they are. There is a hidden agenda for everything in politics these days, this is no different.

No one will ever be satisfied in this game.

Maybe it's because I've been brought up with a national healthcare system, but I think its the best solution for a modern, postmaterialistic world. It should be considered that not everybody is as lucky in life as everyone else, and it's only fair that the rich should help out the poor. Im not a communist, or a socialist, but I believe in a democratic system whereas everybody deserves the same OPPORTUNITIES, not OUTCOMES in life, why should people die because they cant afford treatment. Life is precious.

It's not tax because you're alive it's tax because you earn. We already went through this you can't keep using that straw man argument.

As for it not being free healthcare, of course it isn't, nothing's free. Nobody thought it was free unless they were comically naive.

And as for the idea tha public = bad, private = good I think sum guy on 4chan summed it up pretty well.

God, that was VERY well-said. But on 4Chan? Of all places! LOL

Wow, fantastic post... ON 4CHAN! Whoda thunk it?

For (BLEEP) sake, you're blowing this out of proportion. Maybe one day you guys will hit bad times and wont be able to afford the appropriate care, then who'll be campaigning for healthcare?

I happen to come from a country where the Healthcare system works and works well. When that day comes, I'll be alive.

So, all the supporters of the Bill approve of gov-funded abortions? Hmm?
How about unlimited healthcare for Illegal Aliens? No?
How about the whole if you're too poor to pay for it you get 2% of what you DO make/own taken or you're tossed in jail? (Even though it's supposed to be a cheap alternative, not forced care) I suppose you're cool with that one...
Who'd not be ready to throw out the best healthcare system that effectively helps the most cancer patients recover and has the greatest technology and education to help the sick?
Bet you're a-ok with it being payed for by cutting costs in Medicare and putting them back in this new plan, eh? I- ...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGH! If you want a bill that does all that crap in the vein of "helping people", you're impatient and need to think about the dire consequences that this monster will have for the country. If you even think for a split second that the US government can effectively split costs between a new monster of a program and losing-more-money-every-year Medicare, you're nuts.

Here's one that I've been wondering- if this beast passes (God forbid) Abortion will be made into "just another medical procedure", like kidney replacement or having your appendix removed. Well, what about Catholic Hospitals? You bloody well know that they do NOT perform abortions, but will the government force them to or be fined out of business? Hmm... Scary thoughts....

Love,

-Zenek

Sorry Zen I zoned out as soon as you said its bad to approve of government funded abortions.

I don't know if it's just me, but Zenek sounds very very conservative... And I don't like it. I'm surrounded by them where I live. I didn't think Zenek would be one of them, since I thought he was a friendly figure. IMO, healthcare belongs to everybody, and nobody should be denied of it just because of strange medical history or because they can't afford it. People need it.

The government is not evil like you make it out to be. Otherwise, we would be in a severe position in a country such as Peru. Trust me, I know when the government is "evil". Sometimes I think that making our current President the scapegoat of all this is completely unfair. It is NOT just him making decisions. There's lots of pressure in politics. Nobody can please both sides, and I can imagine what hard time Obama is having with all this. I can tell that he is trying his best. BTW, healthcare is one of his tasks. He has other things to do as well. Instead of setting the blame on solely one person, blame the root of the problem (healthcare-wise): The health insurance companies. They only want to help their people. Unfortunately, not everybody can afford MediCare. I sure can't. That's why we need to be more so like Europe. They have wonderful health programs! Why not be like them? It's not going to make us "more socialist."

What the hell is up with "socialism" anyway? Is that the new way to insult Obama's presidency and the government? I'm tired of hearing the same crap from where I live AND from Glenn Beck's whiny mouth.

Edit: Yeah I realize I expanded the conversation further than it was supposed to.

I just hate it when they call socialism communism. Its like being in the cold war again where everything that was different was communistic.

Can't stay on long enough for a proper reply, but ow! So I'm not a nice guy because I'm a conservative-thinking person? Gez, that was a low blow... Now I suppose I'm a Nazi now. Aww... No one loves Zenek anymore.

-Zenek
PS. I'm off to bed. Had company over that STAYED TOO DAMN LONG. I'm tired and now I'm SAD. THANKS MS. DULCE.

Nobody agrees on politics, it doesn't make a person any meaner or nicer based on what they stand for, you should know this, calling Zenek out like that really is a low blow, I wouldn't expect that out of YOU.

You wouldn't know when the government is being 'evil'. They hide their tracks very well and leave many bread crumb trails going in several directions that sometimes lead nowhere to hide what is really going on. This is not new.

What I don't understand is, how anyone could be worried about hospitals and medicinal facilities not making enough money. God knows they jack the prices up to outrageous standards. They make far more than enough, and they really don't care about your best interest or mine, it's all about the cash my friends. If you were the one who owned these hospitals, and you took a pay cut after years of having a pretty constant annual salary, how would you feel? You sure as hell wouldn't be saying, 'atleast the common man can now afford to save his life'. Medicine does NOT cost an arm and a leg to make, it does NOT cost much to ship, it should not cost as much as it does.

If they don't have to see it directly, then as they say, 'out of sight, out of mind'. These people are no more than Crooks with Authority. You all may not see anything wrong with our Countries, but then again I imagine several of you who blindly support it do not even think twice to what the Mainstream Media Outlets tell you. Just lap it up, why would they lie to you? The government has no reason to manipulate people whatsoever! That is Outrageous!

Why do you think they do not teach some degree of Law in Highschool? Why do many of us not know the extent of what we can and cannot do? It makes one wonder.

PS: Obama is just a puppet, like the other presidents have been for the past 40+ (probably more) years. Don't you want to know who really is pulling the strings? Some of you people need to wake up. Things are not always as they seem at face value.

Yeah, I've known for a while that me and Zen have absolutely nothing in common politics wise but I still think he's the nicest guy.

Hey, don't take what I said the wrong way. I am literally surrounded by the hardcore conservatives, so it's automatic to me just get really worked up over them. I didn't say you were a bad person. It's just that your way of looking at politics is different from mine and others. I didn't really imply you're an unfriendly figure. You are a friendly person.

If you can prove you can't afford an abortion, yes.



It's called basic (*******) human compassion



It's a tax. We went over this. It's a tax. Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend?



The best healthcare system? You're 37th in the world. Yet you spend one of the highest proportions of your GDP on healthcare. You don't think that's insane?




The new plan is effectively an extension of Medicare. I'm not really sure of the cuts you're referring to, if anything its budget is going to but upped by a huge influx of new recipients.



There'll be tax increases. Get used to it. You pay pathetically little tax in America but expect public services that rival what we have in Europe.



The government is not taking over control of hospitals, you still have a free market. The government cannot force a private company to perform a procedure.

Our situation as far as gaming politically is concerned may be ######, but I will never take living in Australia for granted.

:/ don't go to memorial hermin they charge out of the ass hole. I hate all these health care bills to be honest... you end up paying for uncle asshole who smoked his whole life and never helped anyone. I think we should just divert all medicaid to children and teens and just let the oldies die

Ohh, Memorial Herman. That's the hospital of The Woodlands lol how could you not go there in case someone's dying/in a serious condition? My dad was put there years ago, doctors paid no mind to him, and we got charged thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars. Same with my mom. A few months ago, she fainted and she wasn't responding. They took her there and after so many tests, doctors found nothing, just that she needed to eat more, etc... It cost us tens of thousands of dollars, and my mom was REALLY upset about that, because the doctors did jack###### according to her. Didn't even come in that often.

In the end, she argued against paying that much, and I guess we still have to owe the money. It sucks. We have no health insurance, and even with it, we still would have been charged about the same. When my dad was treated, we had health insurance, but instead of helping pay, we actually had to pay way more. I have a thing again health insurance of now obviously. BTW, not everybody can afford MediCare. And it would seem very cold-hearted to let our elders die like that, no matter who they were in the past. We need a better solution.

Edit: Do you still live in The Woodlands? I live right by Panther Creek.

See? Thousands of dollars of medical bills, and there are actually people who are against this idea?

Not only against the idea. They are against the government overall. It's ridiculous. This group people started what's called the "Tea Party", so that through pointless and fail protesting, they can "get their country back." Basically, they are the idiot fanatics of Glenn Beck, Joe Wilson, eat up everything that Rush Limbaugh says, and worship Radical Conservatives as if it were a religion/cult. It's saddening (and might I say, scary) to see just how much they eat up this crap, such as calling the government "communist/socialist/Marxist/fascist" and use all those as if they are interchangeable. Worse yet, they have no clue as to how the inner workings of the government function. They expect the economy to be back up and running by one day's time, and even think Glenn Beck should be President; even Sarah Palin, the idiot Alaskan governor who knows jack about foreign affairs, let alone, how the economy and government functions as a whole.

I'll not go any further than that, for there is too much to talk about concerning this. Hey, if you don't believe me (regarding the group of people that attend the "Tea Party"), here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

Take a look and take note of all the picket signs. If I had a nightmare about the collapse of America, it would be filled with millions of people such as this, only with guns and the like and wreaking havoc amongst society. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

I just watched it today, seeing how many people are talking about it where I am. On a sidenote, I was fully aware that the government czars are used to watch over agencies and organizations so that they can properly control them. This year, Obama appointed more czars than any other president before him. And I think THAT'S where people started misinterpreting the whole concept of it all, and now think "czars taking over the White House."

Obama has the middle name Hussein; seems Muslim. But so what? Islam is part of the Three Abrahamic Faiths, meaning, they ARE part of the three branched tree that believes in God. So because a couple of Muslim terrorists blew up the World Trade Towers, we are going to be against all Muslim citizens, assuming they are connected to "terrorists"? Islam is a weird religion though. They hated America and any other non-Muslim country before America hated them. You see, the more down-to-Earth Muslims believe that Islam is the only "true and traditional way of God," therefore, they believe themselves the superior religion of them all. They believe all other religions have gone corrupt and lost the true way with God, and that living life without the government and church being interconnected is like a sin. To them, America, or any other non-Muslim country, is a threat. America is VERY lucky to be getting along with the Middle Eastern leaders, for now. Still, I see nothing bad with his name. Obama is not a terrorist. He is trying to help our country to the best of his abilities and passing bills that will make America a more equal nation. Obama is not to blame for ALL our problems.

It's ironic how no matter how much work he does, it goes unnoticed and unappreciated by the ever-growing number of either the brainwashed Glenn Beck fanatics, or people that just overall don't like him due to his race, his color, and perhaps his charisma, and MANY other reasons that Conservatives here in The Woodlands try to name, yet they still make no sense. lol and last time I checked, Mr. McCain was almost the only one in his own party who still has some proper sense on how to fix the economy, and what we should be aiming for. He may not be 100%, but he's got something useful. Healthcare reform is still at work, and I just hope that they can all come to a fair accord that will benefit all American people.

Right- I was going to get right on my work, but this pile you dumped here just pressed all the wrong buttons...

Let's start with the massive ironry here where you say that us conservatives are brainless zombies who listen only to Glenn Beck & Limbaugh. So what if I want to listen to one of the very few people who have conservative values and a medium to broadcast them? Perhaps I just want to get an alternative view from the New York Times, CBS, NBC, ABC, The View, CNN, The Daily Show, Michael Moore (Who I can safely call a commie), Al Gore and other nationaly based news organizations. Your video about the nasty protesters shoots yourself in the foot when I noted that it came from "NEW LEFT MEDIA" Are you serious? Here's one for you: remember all of the war protesters over the years? How many times have those hippies been ARRESTED for starting crap with local law enforcement and breaking property? You know how many people who protested the wreckless spending that would "keep the unemployment level under 8%" got arrested? NONE. Looks like the "Teabaggers" can protest AND respect people's rights at the same time. Fancy that!

Couldn't give a flying rocket-propelled grenade if Obama was Christian, Muslim or Sith. The reason we're at war with Muslim Terrorists is because crazy Muslims chant death to the Western world, blow themselves up in crowds of civilians and act like savages who treat women like property and use children as walking bomb holders. Generally speaking, I DO have more respect for Christians, Budists, etc. as they don't kill bus loads of innocent people. I'm not saying all Muslims are evil monsters, but yeah- it's a war against Muslim Extremists. Any less is a lie.

If you think that America is against all Muslim citizens, I'm not sure what America you're living in. We could always have a concentration camp like we did for the Japanese during WW2. If they think I'm a threat for not living and beliving what they do- F*CK them! That's what this United States is all about. I have the right to follow Christ without the threat of violence againt me or my family. What a concept! I don't care if they believe in their own version of God either. The Koran does NOT equal Christian Bible. By their own logic should the USA just nuke the Middle East and get rid of a country of like-minded people? NO! Because that's evil! Dur.

And as far as Obama goes: He's done an entire year of NOTHING. I feel safer now that I realize that he's a puppet of Congress. Appearently he'll sign anything that hits his desk. The reason we don't have this health care bill that you love so much is because they know this version is not financially viable. Guantanamo Bay is still open, promise broken. If we don't pass the stimulus bill we'll have unemployment over 8%! (I bet it WILL go over 12, but that's just me.) Thing is, not even 75% of the "Stimulus money" has been spent! Great job making jobs there! Obama talks the talk, but unless his Dems support his far-left ideals, his ship won't go anywhere fast.

One last thing: McCain was ok. He wasn't the first thing I think of in a Republican President, and I voted Mitt Rommney in the Primaries. *sigh* I wish... (Voted Cain in the election though) Reminds me of the main stream media when there were stories about how Palin wouldn't be as great of a VP because she's a "MOTHER & WOMAN!!!" And I remember the stories about how would Rommney, being a Mormon, effect his Presidency? If there was ONE news story that even suggested how would Obama run the nation as a black man there would be a HUGE OUTCRY against that organization. Speaking of which, I wish Obama felt as strongly about those Muslim Extremists as he does about Fox News... Then the general he hired would've gotten his troops 3 months ago when he asked for them!

Rock on,

-Zenek

You know, we're never going to get ANYTHING done in this country because each asshole is worried about the Left or the Right.

Way to let them break the American populace in two, making it all the easier to lube up and slip in. It might not hurt too much right now, but give it a few months-years, and then we can take care of that disgusting flaking ooze-y fungus they leave behind. Yeah that'll be fun.

It's neither sides fault, we let all of this come on us because we seem to of forgotten long ago that these monkeys work for us. We've become too comfortable. This is all of our problem, so stop treating it like a liberal or conservative agenda.

Talking about bipartisanship, I really don't know whether I'm Liberal, Conservative, Moderate, or the like. I just want to seek the truth in all this and see the way which seems most right to me. And I'm sure Zenek does, too, and everybody else. I don't want to blame Conservatives for all this mess. I'd blame Liberals, too, if they made a big-enough mess right now. We're not in the 1960's-1970's now. Hippies are not really our main concern today, are they? In that Tea Party video, the only thing I actually agreed with is the fact that ACORN did commit a scandal-like act by registering people that don't even "exist." Some Democrats committed acts of corruption and money laundering in the past. So did Republicans. No side is innocent in politics. I am not sided with Democrats nor Republicans. There are Democrats opposed to the healthcare bill for good reasons.

Although I would like a healthcare reform bill to be passed, I do understand that this bill is still in the process, due to the fact that not everybody agrees that everybody has to be taxed for it, and so forth and so on. The current healthcare system is not at its best. People have been waiting for healthcare reform for the last 20-30 years. I'm sure Medicare works fine with the people who do have it. But what about the rest?

I TL;DR'd most of this. But here's what I have to say on the matter. If I'm wrong then take what I'm about to say as the ignorant ######e that it is, but didn't most other countries already get this crap down? Why can't we just do what they did?

Oh, and another thing...


THE PATRIOTS! OF COURSE!

Yes. The main European countries are happy with their healthcare systems. And I don't really know as to why we can't just do what they did; that's what gets to me the most. Those countries are fine examples of healthcare that everyone can agree on.

Edit: I thought about it further, and maybe that wasn't the best comparison. People are entitled to say that the healthcare sucks in one way or another.